Comments on MYSTAGOGY: We Ought To Repent for the Sins of Others

John, Thanks for the feedback. Correct, after re...

2010-02-06T12:17:15.459-05:00

John,

Thanks for the feedback. Correct, after reading the article, it left me with an impression self-punishment leads to salvation. That is why I was interested in learning more about the idea that was being expressed. I didn't find the article very well grounded. It gave the impression it was opening pandoras box to various forms of sadism and masochism.

You are correct we are supposed to carry our Crosses. And by suffering for the Faith we become witnesses. St. Gregory Palamas has a great homily on St. Demetrius, which explores this concept of suffering.

I thought the video was interesting to share.

Thanks for the video Gregory. I wasn't aware o...

2010-02-06T00:09:53.797-05:00

Thanks for the video Gregory. I wasn't aware of it and will make a separate posting for it. But as far as the post I made and your comments, I see no real contradiction. I think you may be reading far more into it than it says. No right understanding Orthodox would ever claim that punishment leads to salvation. This passage is about condemning ourselves for the sins of others in a humble manner, which will inspire us to seek purification not only for the sins we commit but those which others commit as well. Scripture is full of examples of this, and, as stated, the lives of the Saints as well.

And an interesting follow up to this discussion. ...

2010-02-05T22:38:03.539-05:00

And an interesting follow up to this discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQcdBa2CFew&feature=rec-fresh+div-r-6-HM

Hi George, Thank you for the reply. I am very fa...

2010-02-05T22:23:03.274-05:00

Hi George,

Thank you for the reply. I am very familiar with the life of St. Xenia. However, I am afraid the Saints' lives need to be balanced with an understanding of economia found in Orthodox Christian Doctrine. Punishing oneself for somebody else's sins to please God is not the message I find in the rest of the text from which Galatians 6:2 is derived.

Let me quote the sentence in the rest of the text:

"Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For each one shall bear his own load." (Galatians 6:1-5)

I think the text speaks for itself. Here is another passage from Holy Scripture:

"Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down a the right hand of the throne of God." (Hebrews 12:1-2)

What do these Scripture texts say? We should help people overcome sin with a spiritual of gentleness. I don't get God is pleased when people impose self-inflicted punishments to appease Him for the sins of others. However, Christ Jesus is the true mediator that is able to take on the sins of others. "Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does no give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all thing He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted." Hebrews 2:14-18) So only Christ destroyed death by death. We are supposed to love and pray for the salvation of others and not inflict punishment on ourselves for other people's sins as a way to please God. Christ has already shed His blood to cover our sins. The propitiation for the people's sins has been covered by Christ Jesus.

Gregory, this is something you find often in the l...

2010-02-05T00:06:20.881-05:00

Gregory, this is something you find often in the lives of the Saints. Maybe a meditation on the life of St. Xenia the Fool for Christ would be helpful.

I don't know about this. It is an interesting...

2010-02-04T21:32:06.761-05:00

I don't know about this. It is an interesting concept. There should be more information on this concept available. This text doesn't provide an adequate argument in my opinion. I don't know if Galatians 6:2 is talking about a self-imposed punishment to suffer for the sins of others. Only Jesus Christ can only be the true mediator.

This agrees with the command of the Apostle: "...

2010-02-04T10:41:57.557-05:00

This agrees with the command of the Apostle: "Bear one another's burdens: and so you shall fulfill the law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2).

God bless you and yours,
Will R. Huysman